Hello guys,
Today when I started to test the recording on MimoLive i noticed the quality of the recorded imagem was significantly different than the image captured onboard on the cameras.
I was expecting a little loss of quality from running cables and switchers and all but the difference was alarming! I set up a document at 1080p 29,97 and I have only the video feed on the document, no layers or anything, I simply record that feed and I get a much Noisier image and actually brighter for some reason. I have no filters or anything on the workflow.
My workflow is mapped on the image attached. I run a camera into an ATEM switcher, then a BM intensity shuttle and into MimoLive. I’m also capturing in ProRes 422HQ.
My cameras are 1080i60 INTERLACED so MimoLive doesn’t like that!.. I don’t know if that could have anything to do with it… I tried the deinterlace filter and it helps a bit but not much.
link to an example:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-GpGGFCq-DjdE52NlBqSlZFV3c/view?usp=sharing
Tomorrow I have to record a job and I need to fix it!.. I can’t think of any reason why this images are so bad!!
Any advice would be amazing!!
here is a map of my set up:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-GpGGFCq-Djb3g2X0psdUw0Zms
Another important detail… I get a better image on the Program window when I’m watching the show then the image I recorded! Why would that happen? there is even a luminance change from the preview window to the recorded image…
There is so many variables that could be causing this… I don’t know where to start!
Thanks for providing the images. In my opinion the artefacts are coming from multiple re-encoding a frame. Its just like opening a JPEG in PhotoShop, saving it, reopening it, saving again: You constantly loosing quality because the compression generates artefacts that the next compressor will try to keep as a “detail” of the image. The recording on the cameras tape has just one compression and thats why it has the best quality. The signal way from your camera via the ATEM switcher into the Mac seems to be quality lost less because its all HDMI or SDI signals. Not sure about the Intensity Shuttle thought. In the end there should be also only one real compression at the end when saving the movie file by mimoLive. The reason why the Deinterlace Filter may avoid of some of the compression artefacts is that it soften the image a bit vertically and this removes some noise in the image.
My suggestion would be to check all capture devices including the ATEM switcher that they have the same 1080i60 setting so that they don’t need to touch the video signal.
Also: Switch your setup from interlaced to progress because none of your endpoints seems to be using interlaced signals anyways.
I looked closer at the image you provided and saw that the interlaced lines are not correct, they are not aligned with the pixel lines in the video frame. It looks like they are about 1.33 pixels in hight. This makes me think that a scaling of the video frame is happening somewhere which also can cause artefacts.
Thank you very much Achim! very insightful comment.
I actually dug deeper into this and found some important info.
First of all I teste the Prores422, prores 4444 and H264 and I believe the Prores encoding inside MimoLive might be damaged.
check the image> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-GpGGFCq-DjbnZsdEgzcFdIWEk/view?usp=sharing
For this I actually followed your advice and changed my whole system to 720p. I was hoping to get 1080p but I couldn’t make the BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle ingest the 1080p at 59.94. (my cameras only output 59.94 and not 29.97 or anything (they are cheap Sony HDR XR160))
Next I tested the Prores422LT recording simultaneous from streaming to youtube. I dowloaded the stream later to compare and the pro ress 422 is much worse than the h264 streamed at 5.500Kbps…
why would that happen? https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-GpGGFCq-DjS28tR1lLLXFHZm8/view?usp=sharing
My goal with MimoLive was to be able to get a 1080p show going and stream to youtube while recording to disk(ideally at h264 but since thats not advised i can deal with Prores422LT).
That said I set up a 1080p59.94 document and ingested a camera at the same resolution. I added a Deinterlace filter that worked very well. So I’m close to my goal. but when I started streaming OR recording on H264 (not both at the same time). I got and error saying my encoder was too slow! I’m running on a MacPro! is that possible?
check this monitor print with the error https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-GpGGFCq-DjQm15VUV6N1JuRGs/view?usp=sharing
or this for recording to h264 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-GpGGFCq-DjNDdoTHY2Y05qc1U/view?usp=sharing
Am I only limited to 720p recording at h264 really?
I’m running against the clock here!! any help would be awesome.
@“Ivan Rodrigues” Thank you for all the feedback which is very helpful to us. I’m sorry that it isn’t going smoother for you.
Indeed, the MacPro doesn’t have a hardware H.264 encoder and the macOS Software encoder is not very good.
As a temporary relief you can use OBS to encode the stream. It uses the x264 encoder which we would love to use but can’t due to licensing issues - its use would require mimoLive to be Open Source.
To do this, set up the Virtual Camera playout and use it as an input to OBS. This will give you audio and video. From there, connect to your streaming server.
Thank you Oliver, I will try that for now. I wish there was a better way inside MimoLive.
I know this may not be your problem but do you know why I can’t ingest 1080p59.94 from the BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle? Otherwise I will just run a 720p show and in that case I think MimoLive can handle the encoding right?
@“Ivan Rodrigues” Yes, we are working on a better way. Sorry about the inconvenience.
The Intensity Shuttle does not support 1080p59.97: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensity/techspecs/W-INT-02
You should be able to do a 720p show in mimoLive.
Hi, Ivan:
In order to get your 1080p59.94 signal into mimoLive, you will need to use an UltraStudio 4K, which supports that framerate. A less expensive alternative is to use a $295 Decimator MD-HX to convert the program signal down to 1080p29.97, before going into the Intensity Shuttle.
@“Ivan Rodrigues” I just downloaded your sample image of the comparison YouTube/ProRes422/Cam Tape. If you put a high contrast on it you can see why the H264-YouTube-Stream looks better than the ProRes one: It simply flatten out all the noisy details whereas the ProRes tries to keep them. From the original footage on the cam tape you can see that it may be the low light condition that causes the noise in the video signal. Please can you do such a comparison again and do a screenshot of the Program-output window in mimoLive at 100% (so that the window shows every pixel the rendering engine in mimoLive produces)? This way you will get an image without the compression artefacts from the movie codec and we will see, what mimoLive receives as the input video frame.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nwkqbi6b3f7en3/Comparison%2001_prores444_streaming_original%20high%20contrast.png?dl=0