Cannon R5 Issue when Recording ISO

[U2GT]

I posted this on the FB forum, but thought I would add here for the record and in case there are members here who didn’t see my post on FB. Thank you in advance for everyone’s help!

I have four cameras hooked up and automation working - One mirrorless Cannon R5 and three webcams. I tried to record the main live feed along with the independent feeds simultaneously. It works except for one camera. My Canon R5 is hooked up to a Cam Link. When I record, it’s output it’s jittery. Then when I play back the movie file the feed is sped up by many times. The webcams are working perfectly.

And here is what is really strange… the default Program Output feed works perfectly with the Canon R5 and switching between other cameras. I can record the R5 perfectly with the Program Output feed. But I also created separate output feeds for each camera. When I set the source to the Canon camera file output (and not the Program Output), then the video is jittery and the file plays back way too fast. But it works in the Live Output feed.

Here is what is connected to the R5: https://help.elgato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360027963272-Cam-Link-4K-Technical-Specifications

Achim is assisting me on FB. He suggested doing a test to make sure it’s not the camera or Cam Link. So I recorded a video with Quicktime, and it worked. No jitter or choppiness on the video screen or when I played back the file. The file didn’t play at a higher speed. So I think Mimo has an issue with the signal from the Cam Link when it’s recording ISO.

Achim then asked me to run the source performance monitor. I’ve attached two screen shots of the performance monitor. The first one is “normal” and represents it working before going live (so my motion is normal in the program output window before recording) and then it’s also working perfectly when I record to the Program Output. The second screen shot is when I only record the Canon R5 on the Canon video source (I’m not recording to the Program Output destination). Just as it starts recording the FPS falls drastically to 11 from 30.

[Oliver_Boinx]

Hi @U2GT Thanks for sending this information. We will keep investigating the issue.

Generally, I discourage people from using multiple cameras connected to USB. The macOS UVC driver (which is responsible for USB webcams) isn’t very good and uses a lot of system resources. Frankly, I never expected it to be able to even handle four cameras at the same time.

When you recorded from the Cam Link with QuickTime, did you also record the other 3 USB webcams at the same time?

So I think Mimo has an issue with the signal from the Cam Link when it’s recording ISO.

That statement is undoubtedly true. The question is, can we do something about it? For some USB webcams, the UVC driver adapts the frame rate to whatever it thinks is appropriate. If you look at the Settings of the source, what does it say for “Frame Rate”:

(I only have that old Cam Link but will try to see if I can reproduce the issue with the ISO recording.)

[U2GT]

Hi Oliver. It shows 29.97. Here is screen shot.

How would you recommend I connect multiple cameras? I have three USB and then the R5 converted to HDMI from video out using the Cam Link. I’m happy to purchase hardware to offload the processing. What other inputs on my computer would you use? Most are USB or USB-C. I purchased two extra cards to be able to handle all the inputs. I also have the very high end Mac Pro, so perhaps that’s why it’s working.

BTW, I was not recording multiple cameras with Quicktime, but for the tests above, I wasn’t recording with multiple cameras either. I was only recording the R5.

I have one of each of these:

Allegro Pro Type A USB 3.2 Gen 2 - Sonnet

Allegro USB-C 4-Port USB 3.2 Gen 2 - Sonnet

[U2GT]

Not sure if this helps, but here is my USB tree from Mac systems report…

[Oliver_Boinx]

How would you recommend I connect multiple cameras? I have three USB and then the R5 converted to HDMI from video out using the Cam Link.

Since USB cameras aren’t very good to begin with, if you have the budget, I would replace them with R5s. Having all cameras be the same type helps a lot with having them all look the same.

Then, get a Blackmagic Decklink Quad HDMI capture card. This allows you to capture the HDMI output directly. Since there is no compression and conversion like in the Cam Link, the video will also be of better quality coming into mimoLive. In addition, the Blackmagic cards do not use the UVC drivers and thus require less processing power.

But this is in an ideal world with unlimited budget…

I’m happy to purchase hardware to offload the processing.

Not much can be done here, but the high end Mac Pro will be able to handle the processing required for 4 cameras easily.

What other inputs on my computer would you use? Most are USB or USB-C.

The USB-C ports are actually Thunderbolt 3 ports. They can be used for USB-C but they also can be used to connect Thunderbolt devices such as the Blackmagic UltraStudio Recorder 3G. Thunderbolt is different in that it does not have a protocol overhead like USB has and it has a much higher data rate. USB capture devices such as the Cam Link have to compress the video to be able to transmit it over USB. Decompressing the video is what takes most of the processing power on the computer’s side.

I purchased two extra cards to be able to handle all the inputs. I also have the very high end Mac Pro, so perhaps that’s why it’s working.

Yes. It certainly helps a lot that every camera is attached to its own USB bus.

BTW, I was not recording multiple cameras with Quicktime, but for the tests above, I wasn’t recording with multiple cameras either. I was only recording the R5.

Can you please confirm that it is the same issue in mimoLive if you disconnect all the other USB cams?

I suspect it is, but I want to make sure.

[U2GT]

Thank you Oliver! Your suggestions make sense but it’s not economical to buy three more R5s with lenses (wow that would be a lot of $). But here is another idea. What if I buy three of these and convert the USB to HDMI?

USB Webcam to HDMI Adapter from OBSBOT (UVC to HDMI 4K)

I’ll test Quicktime again later with all other cameras disconnected. Perhaps at some point you can get ahold of a Cam Link 4k to test with ISO recording. I’m going to buy the Blackmagic card and plug the R5 in to that card directly.

[Oliver_Boinx]

@U2GT

I’ll test Quicktime again later with all other cameras disconnected

I was thinking about the mimoLive ISO recording. It would be interesting to see if there is a difference if the Cam Link is the only device being connected to the computer.

What if I buy three of these and convert the USB to HDMI?

My gut feeling is that this doesn’t make sense. If you want to keep the USB cams you might as well connect them as you do as they don’t seem to be the problem. Perhaps it already is enough to get a Blackmagic UltraStudio Recorder 3G for the R5 to work around the problem, even though that means you would only get 1080p instead of 4K. (If you need 4K, the DeckLink 4K Mini would probably work great).

[U2GT]

Hi Oliver. Well, some disappointing news. I have the Canon R5 working with Blackmagic, but I’m having the same problem. Recording works perfectly using the Program Output, but not the direct feed from the Blackmagic video card. So now we know it’s not the Cam Link. Shouldn’t Mimo be able to directly record HDMI from the Blackmagic card?

Then I tested my old Canon 80D using the Blackmagic and had the exact same problem. So it’s not the camera or camera settings. It seems this is an issue with Mimo. Here is a screen shot of the performance monitor using the 80D with Blackmagic while recording an ISO selecting the direct camera feed for the source (not using the Program Output). Same problem as I posted above with the R5 - the FPS drops significantly to 38 from 60. Camera 6 is the 80D.

Also, I tested this with all other cameras disconnected from the computer. Same problem although the frame rate didn’t drop as low. It fell into the 40s.

UPDATE: I just tested the Obsbot webcam and it has the same problem when recorded single source ISO. This is a problem across all cameras - both HDMI and USB. You should be able to recreate the problem with any camera (and see Desktop issue below).

BTW, maybe it has to do with my Mac? Again, I’m on the 2019 Mac Pro running Ventura 13.1 (22C65). Here are system specs:

Model Name:	Mac Pro
Model Identifier:	MacPro7,1
Enclosure:	Tower
Processor Name:	16-Core Intel Xeon W
Processor Speed:	3.2 GHz
Number of Processors:	1
Total Number of Cores:	16
L2 Cache (per Core):	1 MB
L3 Cache:	22 MB
Hyper-Threading Technology:	Enabled
Memory:	384 GB
System Firmware Version:	1916.60.2.0.0 (iBridge: 20.16.2059.0.0,0)

Let me know if you require other data.

I hope we can figure this out. Thank you!

[U2GT]

Oliver, I found another issue that might be related because it’s only happening when recording directly from the source (works ok with Program Output). I tried to record my desktop. I set up File Output and chose the desktop so I could record an ISO. Then I started it and it recorded for a second and automatically shut down (record button was red for a second and then went green by itself for no reason). I tried to open the mov file and it gave me an error and said it wasn’t a Quicktime file (but it was). I tried again and the File Output keeps crashing (stops recording and creates a small corrupt file). When I then record the desktop to the Program Output, the desktop recording worked perfectly. So it’s a similar issue. Mimo is having a problem recording my desktop ISO (it crashes) and the cameras are choppy. Everything is fine in Program Output. Perhaps this is all related.

[Art_Aldrich]

I have experienced this recently when ISO recording the sources. Same exact scenario, file starts, then stops immediately, corrupt qt file.

I assumed it was an overhead issue, but now I think otherwise.

[U2GT]

So glad to know I’m not crazy and doing something wrong! Something is wrong with Mimo because all my cameras (HDMI direct into Blackmagic and webcams) all don’t work correctly recording direct source ISO. Desktop is different and crashes but the common problem is direct recording across any source.

[Oliver_Boinx]

Hi folks, thanks for posting all this information which will help us track down the issue. The most important part of that is that we’re able to reproduce it, which we’re currently working on. I’ll keep you posted.

[U2GT]

Hi Oliver. Any updates here? Thank you!

[Art_Aldrich]

Try the new beta build, 6.4B2, for me the iso records are working again.